Comments on: what I learned at church last week

By: Lloyd Taylor

Lloyd Taylor — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:47:13 +0000

hahaha, little kids doing stuff like that is pretty much the main benefit of even having auditoriums for worship, as far as i’m concerned.

By: Stewart

Stewart — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:35:24 +0000

This isn’t a serious comment at all, but when I was a young child my father dragged me out to the church lobby for misbehaving and making noise. As he carried me down the aisle I yelled “oh daddy please don’t beat me, I’ll be better, I’ll be better!” (not that my father has ever actually beaten me in my life). If I remember the way my mother told me the story (and part of me isn’t sure if this next part might be something from a story I heard elsewhere), the preacher then said “somebody please help that boy!” to much laughter.

By: Lloyd Taylor

Lloyd Taylor — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:48:46 +0000

Kelly, that is a great (or not-so-great) real world example of how these things can happen despite the best of intentions. I really would love to take you up on your offer soon though! I’ve got some things on my plate at the moment, but don’t rule me out!

Also, you’re throwing the word “speak” out pretty wantonly… ; )

By: Kelly Fann

Kelly Fann — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:11:34 +0000

Loyd, I repeat the invitation to come to Italy. I have a job for you… I go to the church that not only is hold on to the song book with a white knuckle grip, but lives in fear of doing anything because we might look like the pentecostals or we might interfere in people’s lives or church might last longer than 12:00 (because lunch must be on the table by 1:00!)… and it’s dying under all that pressure. (literally, since many of its members have actually died off without leaving behind any kind of legacy…) Come help me change it. You speak Spanish. That’s practically Italian.

By: Lloyd Taylor

Lloyd Taylor — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:25:18 +0000

@Daniel: Thanks, I know, and I love/love you. : )

@Flip: Thank goodness for loving people who show us the way. Also, I miss you, brother. We need to get together asap.

@Storment: You’re right, it can get dark. It’s so easy to forget how far God came to come after us when we were out wandering.

@Natacha: Great thoughts. Actually, my buddy Philip posted some great thoughts on how not to “do nothing” recently, and you should check it out. Here’s the link. Oh, and yeah, really good point about not knowing each other. How can we be family if we don’t know who our brothers and sisters are?

@Sara: bahaha… yeah. : )

@Les What are some ways you’re thinking of that we could revamp our worship to prevent getting stuck in unhelpful patterns?

Also, I was really hoping someone would bring up your point about sin. I thought it needed clarifying, but I couldn’t figure out how to put it in there without breaking the flow. All I really meant about the sinning was that, sometimes, someone who is sinning doesn’t necessarily really want to leave God altogether, but rather the sin is a symptom of the fact that they have lost sight of Him. The appropriate reaction is to go after these people (assuming they will accept the help) before they lose touch with the church family. Of course, if they continue to willfully sin after that, we cannot force them to stay. It’s just a shame when people leave due to sin and no one even makes the effort to get them to come back.

By: natacha

natacha — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:17:52 +0000

I agree and disagree with saying sin is a form of screaming out for God. Yes sin is absence from God but people who sin are searching for fulfillment and sometimes when that sin doesn’t fill their needs and they are still miserable they come to realize they were searching for the wrong thing to satisfy them. so perhaps it’s an indirect cry for help and for God.

By: L Taylor

L Taylor — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:44:18 +0000

Agreed – interesting thought. People do get stuck in their patterns. I was thinking about this recently with the use of song books. So many places are confined to songs there. Well, when you do that repeatedly, the words can lose their meaning. We rarely sing new songs, unless there’s a youth group to forcibly introduce them upon the often unenthusiastic older group. This is why to me our churches need to have worship that is more organic. Worship that, by the nature of how it is done, cannot stagnate. It can’t end up being the same thing it was last week. But that’s uncomfortable for most people. This is part of why, imo, the whole idea that we’re part of some restored church is goofy. Everything we do is built off of liturgy of other denominations.

I do take issue with one comment in this post though. “Sometimes that screaming comes in the form of asking for attention. Sometimes it comes in the form of sinning.” Are you saying some people sin in order to find the Father? If you mean unintentionally, perhaps – for instance they go searching and become Islamic and denounce Jesus as Lord or something. That would be sinful, and while they are searching for God, they’re doing it wrong. If that’s what you mean, I have no problem. But if you mean people sin in terms of habitual fornication, or drugs, or homosexuality, or other sins like that, I’d have to strongly disagree. People who are living in sin in that form are not seeking God. They can’t be, by the nature of it. These things are of the evil one – they are spawned from darkness. They are, at their very foundation, darkness. So if one is searching for what is pure light, they cannot be desiring darkness. At least other religious beliefs, though incorrect, may have a hint of light in them (for instance, love for others, or something). But blatant sin has no light in it at all, and I reject that notion that someone searches for God through sin. Perhaps you can clarify this point though.

Anyway, still, good post, but I agree with Daniel.

By: Sara Taylor

Sara Taylor — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:15:41 +0000

I really appreciate Natacha’s addition.

(I also like Daniel’s. )

By: natacha

natacha — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:56:10 +0000

interesting thought. and rightly so. last sunday at my church, one thing they said that stuck with me is that sometimes the church is afraid to do anything for fear of doing things wrong that they don’t do anything at all. essentially that is what happened with the little boy. no one knew what to do so they just didn’t do anything. i think that happens much more than we think and it needs to stop. we need to figure out how to stop doing nothing. i have come to realize this and am passionate about starting a ministry where people can learn how to get involved or help in any way so that they don’t become lost or can find their way through service. it’s the only way i will want to come to church. being involved in some way. feeling a part and feeling like i am needed. perhaps more people should have known who the boy was and didn’t know him because all they did was sit in the pews and didn’t work as a team to get things done in the congregation to serve each other or the lost.

By: Jonathan Storment

Jonathan Storment — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:44:50 +0000

Lloyd, I’m glad you’re back to writing man. You know what this made me think of? The Good Samaritan Parable…Not to mention most of the O.T. prophets.

Religion turns dark when it’s forgets this. Thanks for the words!